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Thursday, March 31, 2005


Check out the comments from yesterdays blog. I have confirmed this story. The sponsor was not allowed to roll his bill (a common practice to allow a speaker time to bring in speakers ,witnesses, get more info to present or prepare a presentation) . When will they learn? How many more examples will we see of this partisanship? I guess more seats will have to change hands before we can have an open government of, for, and by the people.



  2. Rep. Curry Todd, a Memphis Republican, was indeed trying to roll House Bill 0196 until next year because of the fiscal note and declared and/or perceived opposition. He was not allowed to roll the bill. It was killed in committee.

    In regard to the large fiscal note attached to this bill, please be aware of the enormous costs of illegal immigration that the bill is intended to address. Here are some of the costs imposed by the 20 million to 30 million illegal aliens in our country:

    The spring 2005 issue of Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons includes a devastating article by Madeleine Pelner Cosman, Ph.D., ESQ, titled "Illegal Aliens and American Medicine." The piece is a luminous inspection of the costs and consequences of providing federally-mandated health care to illegal aliens.

    E-mail me (Donna Locke) at tncoalitionathotmaildotcom (I converted it to words here to prevent harvesting for spam), and I'll send you the link.

    Cosman documents the destruction through financial damage of the American healthcare delivery system and details the new health problems illegals are bringing. Her policy recommendations include ones that immigration reformers have been advocating: enforce our immigration laws, close the "anchor baby" loophole, and grant no new amnesties.

    On the state level, we can cut state services and benefits to illegal aliens, because this is a serious drain also.

    From the Center for Immigration Studies:

    Illegals Cost Feds $10 Billion a Year; Amnesty Would Nearly Triple Cost

    WASHINGTON (August 25, 2004) — A new study from the Center for Immigration Studies is one of the first to estimate the impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Based on Census Bureau data, the study estimates that households headed by illegal aliens used $10 billion more in government services than they paid in taxes in 2002. These figures are only for the federal government; costs at the state and local level are also likely to be significant. The study also finds that if illegals were given amnesty, the fiscal deficit at the federal level would grow to nearly $29 billion.

    The study, entitled The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget, is on line at http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscal.html . Among the findings:

    * Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.

    * Among the largest federal costs: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

    * If illegal aliens were legalized and began to pay taxes and use services like legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual fiscal deficit at the federal level would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total federal deficit of $29 billion.

    * With nearly two-third of illegals lacking a high school diploma, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments — not their legal status or their unwillingness to work.

    * Amnesty increases costs because illegals would still be largely unskilled, and thus their tax payments would continue to be very modest, but once legalized they would be able to access many more government services.

    * The fact that legal immigrants with little schooling are a fiscal drain on federal coffers does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a drain. Many legal immigrants are highly skilled.

    * Because many of the costs are due to their U.S.-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth, barring illegals themselves from federal programs will not significantly reduce costs.

    * Although they create a net drain on the federal government, the average illegal household pays more than $4,200 a year in federal taxes, for a total of nearly $16 billion.

    * However, they impose annual costs of more than $26.3 billion, or about $6,950 per illegal household.

    * About 43 percent, or $7 billion, of the federal taxes illegals pay go to Social Security and Medicare.

    * Employers do not see the costs associated with less-educated immigrant workers because the costs are spread out among all taxpayers.

    Why Legalization Is So Costly. Costs rise unavoidably because amnesty will not change the low education levels of illegal aliens or the fact that the American economy offers such workers very limited opportunities, regardless of legal status. The vast majority of illegal aliens will continue to have very low incomes, and make very modest tax payments. However, legal status would allow them to use many more programs. We know that cost would rise dramatically because legal immigrants with the same levels of education make extensive use of public services. Thus, even though we estimate that average tax payments would rise by 77 percent, we also find that costs would rise 117 percent. To understand why this happens it is helpful to consider a program like the Earned Income Tax Credit, which pays cash to low-income workers. Illegals currently account for only 1.5 percent of the program’s total costs, but if they were legalized their use of the program would grow tenfold because with legal status they would no longer need stolen or bogus Social Security numbers to get the credit. This dramatic rise in cost is not due to laziness on the part of immigrants. In fact, only those who work receive the EITC. The dramatic rise in costs simply reflects the low educational attainment of illegals and their resulting low incomes.

    If Illegals Stay, So Will the Costs. To the extent that policy makers have considered the fiscal costs of illegal immigration, they have generally tried to reduce the costs while allowing illegals to remain. But this strategy has not been effective because the average illegal already receives less than half as much in services from the federal government as do other households. Moreover, many of the costs are due to their U.S.-born children, who are awarded American citizenship at birth under current law. Other programs are simply too politically sensitive to cut, such as the Women, Infants and Children nutrition program. And others costs are unavoidable, such as incarcerating illegals who have been convicted of crimes. Conversely, enforcing immigration laws is both popular with voters and administratively more feasible. There are really only two options: either we begin to enforce the law, significantly reducing the number of illegals in the country, or we accept the costs created by the presence of a large pool of unskilled workers.

    Results Similar to Other Studies. A 1997 report by the National Research Council (NRC) on the fiscal impact of immigrants concluded that education levels and resulting income is the primary determinant of tax payments and service use, which is also a central finding of this report. The results of this study closely match the findings of a 1998 Urban Institute study. Our estimated average tax payment for illegal households in New York State are almost identical to that of the Urban Institute, when adjusted for inflation. The results of this study are also buttressed by an analysis of illegal alien tax returns done by the Inspector General’s Office of the Department of Treasury in 2004, which found that about half had no federal income tax liability, very similar to our findings of 45 percent.

    -- Donna Locke
    Tennesseans for Immigration Control and Reform

  3. Rep. Campfield:

    You should check and confirm your stories before you blindly parrot right-wing talking points. Everything that is carried out in the legislature is not due to some partisan bias. Following is an accurate and unbiased account of what truly happened with Rep. Todd's bill.

    Rep. Todd wanted to talk about his bill but wanted to delay voting on it--not for a week or a month, but for a YEAR. If he had not been prepared to vote on the bill, he should have taken the it off notice.

    The Elections Subcommittee of the House is allocated 30 minutes time within which to meet and hear bills. Rep. Todd and witnesses took up 25 minutes of the committee's time to explain the fine points of this bill.

    Feeling that adequate understanding was had by all, question was called for on the bill and the bill was given its due vote.

    If Rep. Todd had wanted to hold the bill over until 2006 (presumably so that it could be passed in an election year), he should have waited until then to file it.

    He should not have been wasting taxpayers' time discussing bills that are not ready for passage.

    This was an outside observer's impression of the committee proceedings.

    In the future, please do not be so reckless. Take the time to get your facts correct.

  4. Boy, Mike is a purified IDIOT.
    Wow, not only can't he spell deficit, mentioned or KNEW, he exhibits the typical atheistic-commie-head-stuck-up-his-rectum worldview that plagues so many on the left.

  5. CampOut wrote:

    "Everything that is carried out in the legislature is not due to some partisan bias."

    As an unpaid lobbyist of state legislators in two states for the past six years, I beg to differ.

    As for the Todd bill, HB 0196, it's clear that CampOut does not understand what happened.

    Donna Locke
    Tennesseans for Immigration Control and Reform

  6. Are you by chance the same Stacey Campfield that currently, as of March 28, 2005, owes the City of Knoxville delinquent property taxes on six properties? If so, I am quite disappointed that this party and its representatives base more importance on individual ethics concerning social matters, while disregarding individual breaches of ethics concerning financial matters. If you are not the Stacey Campfield in question please accept my sincerest apologies. If you are, I would recommend walking the walk, if you are going to talk the talk. Thanks.

  7. Donna,

    If your organization's bill is legitimate and worthy of consideration, then it is worth it to be prepared when you present it. If you (and Rep. Todd) were not prepared to move forward with the bill, you should not have wasted our time and money presenting it before it was ready.

    I understand perfectly clear everything that happened in that committee room and I understand that you want to blame something for your bill's failure. It could not have been the merits of the bill--it had to be partisanship.

  8. Hey Anyr,
    Are you the same Anyr that is a convicted child molester from Nebraska? If so, why haven't you registered with the convicted sex offender registry? If not, my sincere apologies. If so, shame on you and get out of my state.

  9. http://www.ci.knoxville.tn.us/Tax_Search/results.asp?index=1&qryid=64170.28

    Check out the above link. He really does owe property taxes.

    or go to http://www.ci.knoxville.tn.us/Tax_Search/

    and search for "Stacey Campfield"

  10. No, I am not a child molester. Your apologies are accepted. Perhaps you should give your posts a quick edit. Not only would you catch incorrectly spelled usernames, you would get the chance to change your writing style from elementary schoolyard to adult debate. Thanks for the input.

  11. And out come the ad hominem attacks from the people who don't like what you do.

    Must be doing something right, Stacey.


  12. In response to CampOut:

    House Bill 0196 is not my organization's bill, as you term it. We support the bill, and it does copy the Arizona initiative in ways that we support, and we urged a number of Tennessee legislators to sponsor something like it.

    As far as I'm concerned, the bill is ready. The Democrats, however, are not. In addition, the attached fiscal note is a huge piece of blind idiocy, given the costs the bill is trying to address.

    Given all this, Rep. Todd was, I believe, trying to roll the bill to keep it alive till next year, in hopes facts may have penetrated some thick heads by then.

    Virginia has just passed a similar bill, and similar bills have been introduced in other states.

    And, by the way, don't try to label me right-wing or left-wing. Neither will stick.

    Donna Locke
    Tennesseans for Immigration Control and Reform

  13. Camp:
    Its people like you and John Wilder who make it unbearably embarrassing to be a Tennessean. Why don't you use your time to pass legislation that would actually help people such as reforming TennCare so people who don't have access to insurance can stay on it or help poor working mothers pay for childcare while they work for $5.25 an hour. No one ever mentions the poor in this state... the lowest they will go is working class. Why don't you and the rest of the legislature actually do some good for once instead of wasting 6 months on Capitol Hill and passing bills that have little or no positive effect on the lives of those who need help the most.

  14. Rep. Campfield, don't let the naysayers get you down. Count me among those who are ECSTATIC that you're writing this. Please keep it up.

    The folks who think a few typos and some grammatical mistakes mean the Representative is stupid should try talking to him some time. A few minutes with him reveal, far more than this blog can, how quick-witted and articulate he is. A group from my university recently visited with him about his Academic Freedom bill. He is an engaging speaker, and it is clearly evident that his focus is entirely on his constituents and the good of the state as a whole and not his own political advancement.

    And he has a beautifully decorated office. ;)

  15. rjames,

    I have asked a specific question based on specific facts. It is not based on my personal or partisian like or dislike of Rep. Campfield. A free speech advocate, I commend Rep. Campfield for using this forum to communicate with his constituents.
    If he is the Stacey Campfield that currently owes delinquent property taxes on six properties in Knoxville, I believe that fact is relevant to the discussion. I did not bring up ethics, he did. As a fiscal conservative, I believe that individual responsibility for one's debt is an important value. For one not to practice what he preaches is not.
    With all due respect, you may be able to dismiss any relevant questions as partisian attacks. I, on the other hand, will wait for Rep. Campfield's reply to make a decision on whether or not he not only talks the talk, but walks the walk.

  16. According to the Knoxville assessor's office web site Rep. Campfield is the listed owner of several properties that are delinquent in regard to their 2004 property tax payments. I believe that Rep. Campfield should pay these liabilities immediately and then explain on this blog to all of the taxpayers in Tennessee that live up to their responsibilities why he is delinquent in paying taxes that are principally directed to law enforcement and education. How can he maintain any legitimacy in supporting or not supporting legislation (tax or otherwise) when he is in blatant violation of his legal duty to pay property taxes on the investment properties that he ownes.

  17. if any taxes are owed it it probably for this last year .if it is excessive the city /county has the ability to take them if they feel this is needed. i suggest they do this .by the way cindy what does this have to do with the blog quote i missed where i talked about property taxes ? if you want i can try to lower taxes there also.

  18. if people want laws passed that will help all people of our state then the may want to check who is in controll , the republicans have not held controll for about 100 years maybe you will see that it is obviously time for a change.

  19. Rep. Campfield,
    Thank you for your response.
    I would like to know if you owe the City of Knoxville delinquent property taxes on six properties? The answer is either yes, or no, not if. The year the taxes were assessed is irrelevant. Delinquent is delinquent. If you received no notification from the property assessors office and lacked the knowledge that property taxes are assessed on property you own, please just say so.
    The burden is not on the city/county to collect deliquent taxes, it is on you as a property owner to pay them in a timely fashion, just as many of us do. As a fiscal conservative, I would hate to imagine the cost to Tennesseans and the bureaucratic nightmare that would occur if all property owners decided to follow your rationale. How can I trust you to keep your eye on the state's ball when you don't personally?
    I did not understand that your comments dictate the topics for debate on the blog. I mistook this for a brightly lit, tree-growing, open forum.
    What I want from you is much, much more than lowering my property taxes. I want you to be a responsible steward of this state's business with sincere concerns for its citizen's best interests. I want you to understand that you are a public figure charged with forming public policy. I want you to understand that to do that effectively you must privately adhere to and respect the laws currently in place. I want you to live by the standards you set for others. I want you to work towards effective, efficient government that is concerned with the areas the constitution lays out as your responsibility. I would like for you to leave the saving of my soul to myself, my family and my church family. And yes, I want you to shed light on that which needs to be illuminated...but for the right reasons and without partisan favoritism, partisan rancor or political ambitions. That is what I want from you and everyone else that works for me in the capacity of democratic representation, no matter what political party affliation. That is what this great state and its citizens deserve.
    In the future when and/if you raise children, you will understand that you can talk to your children until you are blue in the face, but if your actions belie your words, your children will repeat the actions not the words.
    That is what I want from you. You aren't the first politician I have said this to, and you won't be the last.
    Before you get on your horse and attack those windmills, maybe you should check your own baggage.
    BTW, I am not "Cindy". Thanks.

  20. ANYR, you are absolutely right. I am sick and tired of politicians talking about what is right and wrong but not doing so themselves. And yet we keep electing them... it is a shame. ANYR, have you thought about running for office?

  21. AynR, here-here. I could not have phrased it more eloquently myself.

  22. i will check if any are owed ,if i owe i will pay, with any intrest, penaltys and fees, if the taxes for the three days that they are late as you claim were not paid . if this is the best you have keep digging i am sure you went to great trouble to find out that that little piece of info and i am sure if you keep looking you might learn more ,i am not perfect, i hope it is not too big a shock. you might even call my mom she can tell you many a good story to prove this fact.my room is usually messy my clothes are not fancy i am not too good on computer ,some say i push too hard,i am a bad speller ,some people say i am cheap (i prefur the word thrifty) my car needs a good wash and many more bad facts, but, if you feel i or my party is deceptive, have lied ,tried to stop anyone from speaking, if you feel my bills are no good , the work i do self serving ,underhanded,will give me, my friends, my family, my party a unfair advantage, if i deny any truth , covered up any lie,tryed to cheat the law have shut any one out of the process let me know that will be worth talking about i open it up, talk. i have encouraged all, even democrats to start a blog i will even set it up for them ( by the way i went to yours, nothing there, says a lot. i guess you set it up just to talk to me , i feel special!! that or you have nothing to say that any one wants to hear.)well good luck getting them to speak i encourage it.post it on your blog someone might see it if any one cares i might even give you a plug, actually i just did.


  24. Dearest Mike, The difference is that demo-gogues/crats don't understand BASIC economics; all you know is class envy, nativism, appeasement, and statism. The only reason you care about deficits (note spelling) is because it gives you an excuse to raise taxes, confiscate property from society's producers and use it to buy favor/votes from your constituency. The voters (as you demonstrably have yet to discern) aren't stupid, and they have completely heard your message . . . let the voting begin.

  25. Aha--from the time of your post, Mike, maybe your problem is that you're operating at a sleep deficit (note spelling)? And AYNR, great opposition research--you Dems are always in campaign mode! (Can you give us some more facts about yourself so that we can dig a little to see if you walk_the_walk?) But the reason you need to have a subject-matter for a blog is because idiots can so distract things that you either fail to discuss substantive issues (ref.: shooting a moving target) or you run off readers because of all the blog pollution (ref.: your "earnest" inquiry of the good representative, by the way, whatever happened to the Dem ideal of "innocent until caught on videotape"?)

  26. I would like to echo the response of Aynr and respond to powertee. Regardless of one’s political affiliation all individuals should take personal responsibility for upholding basic legal obligations like paying property taxes on investment property in a timely manner. Neither Aynr nor I had to go to much trouble to determine the delinquent status of Rep. Campfield’s property taxes. The Representative’s widely published profile states that his “business” is the restoration of historic properties. It takes two seconds to go to the Knox county website and search for properties by owner. Other Representatives, including Democrats, have had their delinquent tax troubles plastered over the local press. Rep. Campfield has been spared this embarrassment and has been given an opportunity to both respond to and address this situation. Since when did holding our elected officials accountable become witch hunting. I thought that the entire point of blogs was to act as a check on the main stream media that often “chooses” what news is fit for the people to hear. Open discussion and “fact” based allegations are good for everyone not just for people whose politics you don’t agree with.

  27. Well, though I hate to humor you (see above about what ruins a blog), it's pretty clear that YOU WERE HUNTING FOR SOMETHING BAD TO SAY ABOUT theRep, that's an ad hominem argument. The first thing I do when someone makes a stupid post on a blog is . . . look at what they do, then research their business, then accuse them of something nefarious. Yeah, right. Why is it merely an accusation? because the fact that a municipal government's website indicates that someone is delinquent on their taxes doesn't necessarily reflect that they aren't "upholding basic legal obligations." You MAY be on to something with theRep (I don't know the situation in Knoxville or over at the State Dem HQ--did y'all try to tag him with this during the election?), but anyone who has to interact any significant amount with gov't agencies knows that there may or may not be something to your "earnest" inquiries. The reality is that you don't like the things theRep is revealing about how Dem- Controlled Capitol Hill works so you're changing the subject, seeing what will stick, distracting from the pertinent issues. Again, perhaps you and ANRY can let us run a credit check on you and look into your tax situation. YOU GUYS DON'T GIVE A RAT'S PATOOTIE ABOUT GOOD GOV'T, you just want to try and discredit theRep.

  28. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  29. Rep. Campfield,

    The answer to the question concerning deliquent property taxes is not "if". You have had ample time to contact the property assessor's office to determine the answer. Your sense of urgency in this matter concerns me.

    To incur interest, penalties and fees is not acting in a fiscally conservative manner, cheap or frugal.

    Actually it took me about 10 seconds to find this information. Just Google.

    I do not require perfection. I do abhor hypocracy.

    Although not easily shocked, I have to admit that reading your blog entries have.

    I don't want to speak with your mother. She is not setting policy for the State of Tennessee, although I commend the close relationship the two of you appear to have.

    If you choose to live a slovenly life, that is your business. I hope that you do not carry this behavior into the workplace. There is nothing worse that sloppy legislation. It did shock me that you feel the cleanliness of your car is equal to acting responsibly towards your debts.

    There are members of your party that are deceptive. There are members of both parties that are deceptive. If you do not know this, I am shocked. You have acted in a deceptive manner concerning your delinquent property taxes, your future actions will prove if this is an anomaly.

    Why would you assume that I am a Democrat? You know what happens when one assumes.

    I don't want a blog. I signed up to ask you a specific question. Please do not feel special on my account.

    It took too much time and energy to get an indirect answer to my direct question, but I am satisfied.
    Thanks for your response.

  30. Powertee,

    Thank your for complimenting my research, but I must confess it took very little time and effort.

    Why do you assume that I am a Democrat?

    No, I must turn down your offer of giving you personal information. I am sure you understand why and most likely knew this when you requested it. But good try at putting the ball back on my court. My bills are paid because I,like Gen. Colin Powell, believe the family name you carry deserves the respect of your actions in life. I will throw you a bone, call it a reward for your blog entries that at least don't celebrate mediocrity. The last political position I held before entering early retirement was for a Republican Senator's Presidential bid.

    Being delinquent on ones property taxes while touting yourself as a frugal, thrifty, fiscal conservative in public is a substantive issue. Self and pack aggrandizement isn't.
    I suppose your view is based on why your priorities are.

    I seriously doubt that Rep. Campfield's blog readers will run off due to my entries. But you seem to know more about blogs than I. I "earnestly" wanted an answer to my question.

    I am not familiar with the "innocent until caught on videotape" ideal that you mentioned. I did spend some quality time in South Carolina, am an expert on the "scorched earth politics" ideal, if you would like to discuss that.

    I know being an idealist is an concept that you are totally unfamiliar with, but, I actually do care about the reform of government at all levels. Too bad you don't.
    Thanks for your input.

  31. To each his or her own. I've learned to triage in terms of priorities. I don't care if or how delinquent Campfield is with his property taxes if he'll get busy and help avert the train wreck ahead for this country.

    Donna Locke
    Tennesseans for Immigration Control and Reform

  32. Dear AYNR, Oh--I definitely care about ethics, and I do care about integrity. But I am flat out challenging your motives and sincerity. Though sort of complimenting your research, I really intended to point out that you went out of your way to mount an ad hominem attack. I'll say it again, you are presuming something about theRep, based on a 10-second google, and attempting to discredit him (or perhaps make him wary of posting from the Hill) with that insinuation. That's lame. And since you brought up SC and scorched-earth politics, what did you try to do to theRep with your "earnest" question?: "Are you, or have you ever been, the same Q. Stacious Campfield who is delinquent on property taxes on properties you own in the County of Knox?!?!" I don't want to belabor my rat's patootie point, but have you taken the time to google John Ford?

  33. Powertee,

    I don't have to Google John Ford. I have forgotten more misbehavior about John Ford than most on this blog know. His office is well aware of my opinion of his behavior and have been since the early 90's.

    I applaud you for being concerned with ethics and integrity. I too hope that you are sincere.

    My question does not discredit Rep. Campfield. The only thing that can discredit him is his actions. I did not presume anything. I went directly to the source and asked. As a citizen I was invited to an open forum.

    My question is based on documentation. Do I understand the tactic of throwing anything, no matter how outrageous, at someone to throw them off message or cost them time?
    Yes. Did I implement that here? No. I have never practiced this. I do have first hand knowledge of this political tool. I came to his blog, where I asked him directly. He could have taken care of my question in one entry.

    He would have spent half the time and energy by either saying no, it is a bureaucratic mistake and offer proof, or yes.
    Even if he had not paid them I would have gladly excepted a response similar to the following.
    Anyr, I did overlook paying my property taxes last year and I will contact the property assessor's office and take care of any monies owed posthaste. I have been quite busy trying to pass legislation beneficial to all Tennesseans. I agree in this instance my behavior was not that of a fiscal conservative. It was an anomaly. I hope that my future actions will insure to you and my other constituents that I am indeed dedicated to solving the problems facing this great state.

    Instead he wasted his and my time giving a non-answer and a quite a bit of irrelevant information which in turn gave me the answer to the much bigger question that I was asking. Does he walk the walk? When one places oneself in the forefront as a champion for ethics, integrity and fiscal conservatism then one places oneself under scrutiny.

    You can question my motives or sincerity until the cows come home. You have that right and I don't mind. In this forum I really have no way to prove anything. I am sure you understand why. I hope that you question and look at the motives of all that present themselves a certain way publicly, especially those in charge of the stewardship Tennessee.
    Thanks for your response.

  34. AYNR,You wrote, "...which in turn gave me the answer to the much bigger question that I was asking..."; more precisely, you should have said, "the point I was trying to make..." Which is my issue with you...you were trying to prove some point by asking the question. But, anyway, did it ever occur to you that his purported failure to pay was inadvertent? And did it ever occur to you that he a little bit hesitated to soberly answer a post from an anonymous pot-shotter on a blog? For someone who has more than one plate (or more than a single saucer) spinning professionally, such an oversight may have NO bearing on his character. And you have hastily insinuated otherwise, with little basis. Indeed, theRep may be a scoundrel, but I doubt it, just as I (and every intellectually-honest person watching) would doubt that your question was sincere. Now let's move on, and collectively commend theRep for pushing open the door a bit on Nashville goings on. Even if a messenger or source of accurate information is despicable, why witchhunt the messenger?

  35. Powertree, it appears that you gave AYNR too much rope. Good job.

    AYNR,You wrote, "...which in turn gave me the answer to the much bigger question that I was asking..."; more precisely, you should have said, "the point I was trying to make..." Which is my issue with you...you were trying to prove some point by asking the question.


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